[andyt]

Choban Choban:

andyt andyt:

Choban Choban:

Bear Spray, Gas masks and a modified BB gun, sounds like typical fare for a night playing a role playing game, or better yet for violence and vandalism

You seem to have Eye Brock disease, where everything gets conflated into one big mess. The medieval guy was carrying non of the things you mention here. He was carrying homemade armor and arrows with customized tips not to cause damage. He said he understood why the police might seize his stuff, but to display it alongside actual items seized in realation to the G20 just made it guilt by association. A favorite police tactic, it seems.

The medieval guy was carrying none of the things you mention here? I believe your wrong as I quoted it from your very first post. I agree with you thast they should not have been displayed with the stuff from the protest seizures but I diagree that they should have let someone have these items in public given the time and place of his possessing them.

Well, find that quote where I say he was carrying a modified bb gun, bear spray etc. Doubt if you can, since it never entered my mind we was carrying those things. If he was, that's a different story. But the police seem satisfied that we was legitimately doing what he said he was - they've admitted that. And the guy agreed he sees the point of seizing his stuff - he's just upset that they presented it as weapons to be used for G20, when even the police admit it wasn't. It's this kind of over eagerness by the police to present amplify their case that just has them shooting themselves in the foot.

[Choban]

$1:

The usual police bullshit:


Quote:
Barrett, 25, of Whitby, Ont., was en route to a west-end park for a role-playing fantasy game called Amtgard when police stopped him at Union Station on Saturday...

His homemade shield, foam-covered baton, scale-mail vest, and roll of hockey tape sat next to bear spray, a modified BB-gun, and gas masks.

Barrett was enraged to see his property associated with violence and vandalism.

Here you go, from your very own post, first one on this story.
Like I said, these items at this place and time would certainly be suspect to the police, and I did agree that they should not have been touted to the media as protest related weapons.

[andyt]

Choban Choban:

$1:

The usual police bullshit:


Quote:
Barrett, 25, of Whitby, Ont., was en route to a west-end park for a role-playing fantasy game called Amtgard when police stopped him at Union Station on Saturday...

His homemade shield, foam-covered baton, scale-mail vest, and roll of hockey tape sat next to bear spray, a modified BB-gun, and gas masks.

Barrett was enraged to see his property associated with violence and vandalism.

Here you go, from your very own post, first one on this story.
Like I said, these items at this place and time would certainly be suspect to the police, and I did agree that they should not have been touted to the media as protest related weapons.

See that's the point - his foam covered baton, etc, sat next to bear spray etc that was seized from completely different individuals, making it guilt by association, and giving the impression that his items were meant to be used for rioting. In fact the police tried to claim that his foam tipped arrows were "fire arrows" till they were told to get off it.

[BartSimpson]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Police seem to forget, they work for us. Not the other way around

Nope, not in Canada. As Zipperfish has established after considerable argument in another thread, Canadians derive their rights from the government which means that the government is the highest authority in Canada, not the people.

Canadians are ruled by their government and Canadians do not rule their government. More properly, you are not citizens, but subjects in the classical definition.

In the matter of the healthcare debate I would argue that a consensus of Canadians will argue that they trust the government and that people should submit to the will of the government in matters of healthcare. Well, kids, it's that same government that runs your police agencies.

There is no abstract line of demarcation between healthcare and the police as they are both mere facets of the same government that so many of you have told me, at considerable length, is to be trusted with such extraordinary and unquestioned power.

What this ultimately comes down to is this; if you do not trust your police agencies with the power they have to restrict your rights as they see fit, then how is it that you blindly trust any other facet of the same government to respect your rights?

[Choban]

Sorry Andy, your right on the display, I took the story it to mean that these things were all together when seized from the guy.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Police seem to forget, they work for us. Not the other way around

Nope, not in Canada. As Zipperfish has established after considerable argument in another thread, Canadians derive their rights from the government which means that the government is the highest authority in Canada, not the people.

Canadians are ruled by their government and Canadians do not rule their government. More properly, you are not citizens, but subjects in the classical definition.

In the matter of the healthcare debate I would argue that a consensus of Canadians will argue that they trust the government and that people should submit to the will of the government in matters of healthcare. Well, kids, it's that same government that runs your police agencies.

There is no abstract line of demarcation between healthcare and the police as they are both mere facets of the same government that so many of you have told me, at considerable length, is to be trusted with such extraordinary and unquestioned power.

What this ultimately comes down to is this; if you do not trust your police agencies with the power they have to restrict your rights as they see fit, then how is it that you blindly trust any other facet of the same government to respect your rights?

[EyeBrock]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Police seem to forget, they work for us. Not the other way around

Nope, not in Canada. As Zipperfish has established after considerable argument in another thread, Canadians derive their rights from the government which means that the government is the highest authority in Canada, not the people.

Canadians are ruled by their government and Canadians do not rule their government. More properly, you are not citizens, but subjects in the classical definition.

In the matter of the healthcare debate I would argue that a consensus of Canadians will argue that they trust the government and that people should submit to the will of the government in matters of healthcare. Well, kids, it's that same government that runs your police agencies.

There is no abstract line of demarcation between healthcare and the police as they are both mere facets of the same government that so many of you have told me, at considerable length, is to be trusted with such extraordinary and unquestioned power.

What this ultimately comes down to is this; if you do not trust your police agencies with the power they have to restrict your rights as they see fit, then how is it that you blindly trust any other facet of the same government to respect your rights?

Well said Bart.

Too many people are citizens that don't believe in personal responsibility or accountability.

It's always somebody else's fault or problem. Never theirs. And they will whine away and never do anything but post in CKA or similar avenues of discourse.
Like the incessant buzzing of vuvuzelas at the world cup, whining away.


I’m amazed at the support shown on CKA for these anarchists and their promoters.

Does anybody posting in support of them have any idea what they were demonstrating against?

Or is it just an anti-cop thing?

I don’t see a cause here at all.

[BartSimpson]

Andy, sorry I can't respond to your post. I can't see streaming video from work - it's a bandwidth thing. Can you tell me what was on the video? Thanks!

[andyt]

Actually Eyebrock, reading Bart's argument, it seems to say that we should not trust govt healthcare or the police, or, if we embrace govt run health care, we should meekly accept whatever the police do. If we follow his argument to it's conclusion, you would be working for a private corporation, providing police protection to those who can afford to pay for police insurance. A much better system.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Actually Eyebrock, reading Bart's argument, it seems to say that we should not trust govt healthcare or the police, or, if we embrace govt run health care, we should meekly accept whatever the police do. If we follow his argument to it's conclusion, you would be working for a private corporation, providing police protection to those who can afford to pay for police insurance. A much better system.

No, I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of implicitly trusting the government to control your healthcare while vehemently not trusting that same government in police matters.

Either it can be trusted or not. I'm not saying which you need to pick, but it would be nice if you did pick one.

[EyeBrock]

I took it as democracy in action. We vote for people and they run our governments, cop depts etc.

Maybe I don't see things the way you do eh andy? It is allowed though eh?

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

Actually Eyebrock, reading Bart's argument, it seems to say that we should not trust govt healthcare or the police, or, if we embrace govt run health care, we should meekly accept whatever the police do. If we follow his argument to it's conclusion, you would be working for a private corporation, providing police protection to those who can afford to pay for police insurance. A much better system.

No, I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of implicitly trusting the government to control your healthcare while vehemently not trusting that same government in police matters.

Either it can be trusted or not. I'm not saying which you need to pick, but it would be nice if you did pick one.

Well we did pick - we trust the govt enough to have state run police and healthcare. Works out pretty well, and we trust the govt and the police and doctors enough to bitch when we think they've screwed up. It's our idea of how democracy is supposed to work.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I took it as democracy in action. We vote for people and they run our governments, cop depts etc.

Maybe I don't see things the way you do eh andy? It is allowed though eh?

Absolutely. I just ask the same from you.

[EyeBrock]

Bitch away andy.

People like me will always fight for your right to bitch away. In the military and in the cops.

Unfortunately you bitchers never really do anything but bitch. But that is your choice and you are free to make that choice because of people like me who defend it.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Bitch away andy.

People like me will always fight for your right to bitch away. In the military and in the cops.

Unfortunately you bitchers never really do anything but bitch but that is your choice and you are free to make that choice because of people like me who defend it.

Well, some nice self-congratulations there - whatever gets you up in the morning to do a tough job. As I said previously, the legit demonstrators were doing more to defend the democracy than cops who over reacted.